Navigating Religious Trauma: Insights from a Couples Therapist

🌟In this episode, delve into the world of therapy, personality tests, and couples work with Caitlin Harrison, a Marriage and Family Therapist. 

Explore the impact of religious trauma on mental health, the intricacies of EMDR therapy, and the application of therapy models like Internal Family Systems and the Gottman method. Gain insights into navigating childhood wounds, anxiety, and trauma.

❤️‍🩹Join us for candid conversations about personal growth, healing, and the therapeutic journey. 

Transcript

Kira Yakubov Ploshansky: 0:00

Welcome back to Heal Your Roots Podcast. On today's episode we have Caitlin Harrison Marriage and Family Therapist and newest member of our team Kailyn shares how she uses EMDR to help treat trauma, specifically religious trauma, family wounds and upbringing and her work with couples. You're not going to want to miss this episode. Please remember to like, share, and subscribe. Welcome back to Heal Your Roots Podcast. I'm so excited for today's guest. She is one of our newest therapists at the practice. Caitlyn Harrison Marriage and Family Therapist. Caitlin, thank you so much for joining us today.

Caitlin Harrison: 0:34

I'm excited to be here excited to get started with the practice to awesome.

Kira Yakubov Ploshansky: 0:40

So we always start these episodes with really diving into the therapist background. So if you can kind of share what made you become a therapist and kind of your journey along that way.

Caitlin Harrison: 0:50

Yeah, so marriage and family in particular, I sought that out from a master's program because, for me, that's when I saw a lot of my just growth in life. And that's when I was able to really like kind of discover who I am. And what's important to me. And so what I mean by that is when I was able to learn more about my family of origin, learn more about what I carried from how my parents raised me from how being an oldest child affected me, and how I might be even carrying some of my own, my own anxiety may be carried from my family in generations past, it kind of, it kind of blew my mind and kind of took a lid off of me that I had on for a long time. And so that's what gave me my passion for this field in the first place. And that's what gave me the passion to seek it out. So

Kira Yakubov Ploshansky: 1:45

that's awesome. That's it's funny, because I also had that experience when I was going in for grad school with like counseling. I was like, oh, let's try marriage and family because I feel like it's pretty broad enough. You can work with kids, couples, families. And then as I was going through these classes, too, I'm like, Oh my God, our family, and our relationships, and different generations shapes so much of kind of who we are and how we see the world and everything. So it definitely makes sense that that kind of like solidified it for you as well. Absolutely. Yeah. What made you want to get into therapy or psychology in the first place if you don't mind sharing?

Caitlin Harrison: 2:24

Yeah, so like I said, therapy and self discovery and digging into like, Okay, I have this, this anxiety or these feelings that are holding me back. And where is this all coming from and just talking about it over and over again, with family and talking about it with friends wasn't getting me enough past it. And so therapy for me, it was one of the most important like instrumental parts of moving me forward in my mental health journey. Um, and aside from that, I've just always been the kind of person that loves to study how the human brain works and human behavior and understand why we do what we do and personalities, I was always into, like Enneagram Myers, doing anything I could to learn about, like, who am I and who are you and so, I always kind of had that bend anyway, so yeah,

Kira Yakubov Ploshansky: 3:20

that's awesome. I used to love those personality tests. I made everyone take the Myers Briggs Do you know what your, your personality like? The combo? combo is? Or if you feel comfortable sharing? Yeah,

Caitlin Harrison: 3:32

yeah. So I'm very borderline, introvert extrovert. So I always score like very fine. Like lying between those two. I would say personally, I lean more towards that extrovert. So that'd be the E and then S. So sensor. F for feeling and then j so yeah,

Kira Yakubov Ploshansky: 3:54

ESF J. I think one of my best friends is that

Caitlin Harrison: 3:57

Yep, that's it. Yeah. It's it's supposed to be like the nurturer. There's all those different names for it. Yeah, I was all into that all growing up. And then the Enneagram when that was big, which I think it still is, but always into that stuff. Yeah, in my family members, get into it, too.

Kira Yakubov Ploshansky: 4:15

Yeah, I'm the INFJ. I remember when I first met, my husband was like, Here, take this test. Give me the results. I can read everything about you. That's so funny. And so now that you know you've graduated and everything, who do you enjoy working with? Like, what would you say is your specialty or area of expertise that you want to continue growing in? Yeah,

Caitlin Harrison: 4:37

I love working with couples couples work is so near and dear and important to me. So whatever that looks like, you know, I think every couple comes in with something a little bit different. It could be sexual issues that you're having in your relationship, or it could be we're mostly happy but this argument always comes up and we want to finally get through it, or it could be like, everything's, Everything's bad. We've lost the spark, and we don't know how to get it back. But we want to fight for it. Whatever couples are coming with, I love working with couples, and then individuals, and individuals who are working through their own childhood wounds, people who are struggling with anxiety and how to cope with that, how to work through it, how to find what's triggering you, and how to manage that. And then also people suffering from trauma. So I have an EMDR training, that really helped me work with folks who are struggling with PTSD, and even just trauma symptoms, especially those with religious trauma. I've done a lot of research and trainings on people who are struggling with very strict upbringings, or however, religion had could have harmed you, or faith transitions. So yeah, those are that's, that's the ideal client that I tend to work with.

Kira Yakubov Ploshansky: 6:13

There's like a nice wide range. But there's also a lot of overlap I see there, as well, especially thinking about like those childhood wounds, or even like that cultural religious aspect, how that might show up in a relationship as well with ourselves with a partner, other family members. So it seems like wide spectrum, but also specific pieces in between all of it as well. Mm hmm. And so I, you know, we don't have a lot of guests who talk about religious trauma, and I've never really worked with that specifically, would you mind sharing a little bit more about that? Because I think that might be interesting for audience members to hear as well.

Caitlin Harrison: 6:53

Yeah, absolutely, it can come with all shapes and sizes. Um, when it comes to religious trauma, a lot of folks a lot of us, were raised with a certain set of beliefs and expectations that our parents passed down to us, or just your culture passed down to you to write this expectation of having a certain set of values. And when you start to question those, or you were once very solidly in that same camp, and then you start to wonder, Oh, maybe that doesn't quite align with me anymore. Maybe it used to, and it doesn't. Now, it can really cause a lot of shifts in your internal world. Issues like self trust, come up a lot. Learning how to trust yourself is really hard when you shift your belief system. And when you have parents or a culture that's telling you don't trust yourself, trust this being that you don't believe in him anymore, or your your sexual identity, like, maybe your religion and the belief system that you grew up in, told you that your sexuality wasn't valid, or your gender wasn't valid, that can cause a lot of pain and trauma up in through adulthood. That is really important to work through in order to experience freedom. So

Kira Yakubov Ploshansky: 8:23

wow, yeah, that's really powerful. Because it's this, our entire kind of, it's like a paradigm shift, right? When you kind of go away from everything you've known or learned, and all these beliefs, everyone around you, too, I imagine feeling almost like a black sheep, or like, being ostracized, if it's not the same, or your family might look at you differently. Yeah,

Caitlin Harrison: 8:46

if you were told your whole life that if you love that person, you're gonna go to a fiery pit. What kinds of things is that gonna trigger for you into your adulthood, right, if you hadn't internalized that belief ever since you were too young, to be able to decide if that was true or not. And you are going to accept that belief. So it comes in all comes in all shapes and sizes, and it's it's hard core identity stuff to work through. So I think it's really important even to raise awareness around that topic. A lot of people when they find out religious trauma is the thing, that's what I'm experiencing. And it's normal. Even that's just like a huge piece of the work like other people have this too, you know, yeah. And something

Kira Yakubov Ploshansky: 9:35

you said is teaching people to trust themselves, because they've been taught to trust something external for so long. I can't imagine how much of like a disconnect that must be. Especially like in your body of being able to like recognize, like, what am I experiencing? Is this valid? Is this real or my listening to other people to tell me this information?

Caitlin Harrison: 9:57

Yeah, like am I am I even supposed to connect to my body my therapist is telling me I should connect to my body and trust my gut and know what my feelings are. And that those are important information. When the first however many years of my life, or even into adulthood, you could take on a religious belief system into your adult in your adulthood and then switch later in adulthood. Right? When when that belief system told me, I should deny all of that you're faced with this cognitive dissonance, right? That's the term that we use in therapy a lot like, what am I true to what do I think is true anymore. And it's a very disorienting feeling. And it helps so much to have someone with training in that, that can like guide you through those feelings that can even just like validate that experience and explain a little bit of it and give you language to make sense of it. So

Kira Yakubov Ploshansky: 10:59

it's really powerful. What made you like what pulled you into learning more about that helping people through this particular type of trauma?

Caitlin Harrison: 11:11

I think when you ask a lot of therapists, that is because you have personal experience, navigating those kinds of issues. So I'm pretty open about that to myself is that it's been a lot of my work is just that deconstruction process that we all go through from childhood to adulthood, and when it is those, like core heart value issues that I used to hold this value so deeply. And now I'm questioning this value. My whole support system is telling me not to, but something in me won't let me not question it. It's, it was a it's a, it's a hard, honestly, throughout the rest of your life. It's hard to navigate, that kind of transition. But it makes it so much easier when for me when I had words to put to it when I had the mindfulness to know this is what's happening inside of me right now. I feel so disoriented right now, I don't know who I am right now. Because my whole body's telling me stay safe. Don't question this. Don't wonder about this. And so it's just been a privilege for me to be able to learn all of this information about religious trauma and about how changing faiths or losing a faith as some communities, and I'd say it affects you internally. But it's also been a privilege to work with clients through that.

Kira Yakubov Ploshansky: 12:47

Thank you for sharing that. I appreciate it. I know it's vulnerable work, right. It's really deep and personal. So I really appreciate you sharing that piece of yourself.

Caitlin Harrison: 12:58

Absolutely.

Kira Yakubov Ploshansky: 13:00

And so I know, that's definitely a big part. Is that something that I know, you said you've had training in EMDR that you use with clients to religious trauma? Or is that something that you use for other types of trauma? Or is it kind of like, regardless of the type of trauma EMDR is going to be like a really great go to?

Caitlin Harrison: 13:18

Yeah, so I love EMDR. Because sometimes, talking through things, and just getting insight about like why this affected you so much, is very effective. Sometimes just having one of those lightbulb moments in therapy, like, Oh, this is why I've been believing this, my uncle said this to me when I was younger, and now I can let myself free of that. But sometimes you can talk it to death, and it doesn't go away and you still have the nightmares, you still have the panic attacks, whatever that might look like. And that anxiety shows up for you or trauma symptoms show up for you. And EMDR actually kind of just bypasses the whole talk therapy, we call it a bottom up approach. So a top down approach is I talk about it, I use my brain to make sense of it. And then eventually my symptoms fall in line with what my brain is thinking. But if symptoms are so intense, and talking about it's not helping engaging my brain and like why this is happening isn't working EMDR works from the bottom up. So it can actually access the parts of your brain that are holding that trauma and causing your body so much distress and go from the bottom up and your brain can file and make sense of the things that it hadn't been able to file and make sense of yet. Through EMDR and so it can be the word trauma can be confusing, because I think a lot of us are like oh I don't think I've ever you know really been through trauma. I don't have no nightmares, I don't have you know, but we've all been traumatized at some point in our life, where something has impacted us negatively our self esteem or our just how we move through relationships, like I don't feel safe in this relationship to advocate for myself, that would be in my world considered a trauma, I don't feel safe to be my authentic self all of the time, that would indicate to me you experience something that you weren't supposed to experience. So MDR can help with all sorts of things like that, like I have too much stress at work, I want to process that EMDR can help with relieve some of that stress. So, yeah, EMDR works with all types of trauma and religious trauma or stress at work, you name it's a really powerful modality. And

Kira Yakubov Ploshansky: 15:56

I know it's pretty intense, right? Like, I know, it's evidence based, like there's a lot of scientific research behind it. And it can be an intense experience for people. And I think that's like, kind of like, not a scare something to scare people away, but more of a warning, right? Like, they can kind of recognize what they might be getting into. But I'm sure, right, if someone's approaching this, the therapist is gonna go through the process of explaining it what to expect when we ease into it, right, so that the client is aware of what they're signing up for. Yeah,

Caitlin Harrison: 16:29

every therapist is a little bit different how they move through the steps of EMDR, I spent a lot of time in those first two steps, which are making sure that the client has the resources that they need to be able to walk through the next several wherever reprocessing, we're bringing up old memories, we are talking about the things that are really difficult to talk about, I make sure I spend a lot of time making sure that my clients have the skills and the tools necessary to support themselves through those final stages, so that they can be successful rather than re traumatizing. Um, and I think that EMDR also has this air about it where people are like, this is kind of like woowoo magic, or something like that. And it's, it's really not that I think that that can be kind of like I don't get what's happening. And it's true, you really don't because it is that bottom up approach. We are going down into your emotions down into your body down into your brain. And it's if you're a very cerebral person, like myself, honestly, it can be kind of your skeptical side can come out. Like what kind of magic do you think you're doing? But it's really not anything. You're not being hypnotized? You're not getting some kind of spiritual seance. It's just it's a scientific evidence based model that works. And sure it has some mystery to it. But it's it's not woowoo I think is the best word I've heard. To describe what it's not even though it can seem like that sometimes.

Kira Yakubov Ploshansky: 18:15

That's really funny that you mentioned it like that, because I there's like different parts of me right. And I think we'll talk about that type of method later as well. But a part of me that is kind of more logical and rational wants to see things for the science and another spiritual part. And the spiritual part never saw EMDR as woowoo. But I can imagine how some people might if it's if they are a lot more cognitive and want to think about like all the steps and what's happening and how does it work and how I'm experiencing it. But you are basically like there's right, it's either you have these buzzers or something moving in front of your face, right, like there's this body connection to the story that you're retelling, to kind of rewire that in your body. Right? I'm getting that in your nervous system.

Caitlin Harrison: 19:03

Yeah, yeah, I think things that are quote unquote woowoo can be attractive to some and not attractive. Yeah. And so I think it's important for me to kind of put that Asterix for those people that are more skeptical and wondering, like, What is she trying to do when she's moving her fingers? I always like to add that that disclaimer, because it does have this air about it, or maybe it's intimidating. And so I just like to talk to that crowd that it's not some magical thing where I'm like, accessing some point, it's just, it's just processing you can trust yourself through it. It's it works. You know, it really, it really works. So some people that could be really exciting and magical and attractive. For some it could, it could be a little bit of a

Kira Yakubov Ploshansky: 19:59

a turn off I'm sure just depends how it's packaged up right and how people view it.

Caitlin Harrison: 20:04

Exactly.

Kira Yakubov Ploshansky: 20:06

Speaking of parts, so I know that just from when we spoke before that you also have had some training or you like to work with internal family systems. So I'm sure the listeners probably don't know what that is, unless they're a therapist, if you can share a little bit about what that is and how you use that approach with clients, because I love that approach. Yes.

Caitlin Harrison: 20:29

So internal family systems is very powerful as well. So it helps you make sense of your internal world. So how I see it, how internal families would see the internal experiences that were all made up of parts of us. So you've probably even said yourself, like a part of me really wants to go to that picnic. Today, no part of me just wants to stay at home in my sweatpants. So there, you're naming two parts of you, that want two very different things. And so EMDR would just or ifs would help us kind of name those parts and make sense of those parts. So one part of me really wants a promotion. One part of me doesn't one part of me really wants to have kids, one part of me doesn't. Sometimes I feel really confident in sharing myself. And other times, I can't put words together to say what I want or how I'm feeling. So ifs helps us get really curious about what those feelings and thoughts are, what parts of ourselves come up in certain settings, it helps us understand why they're coming up to put ourselves back in charge of all of these parts of us. So we all have a true self that can sort of guide all of these parts that developed through all of our experiences and our childhood. And it's it's really powerful language, it's really powerful to be in touch with, Oh, my anxious part is coming out. And I know exactly what that part of me needs. In order to keep it at bay, I know exactly what job to give it. So that it's actually helping me Believe it or not, my anxious part can help me, instead of hold me back from what I really want.

Kira Yakubov Ploshansky: 22:31

Oh, that I like to wear. So I don't know if this is necessarily an ifs intervention or technique. But I like to do this with clients who have a lot of anxiety or a lot of worry and stress, like this internal dialogue that just does not stop is kind of like are like, Let's separate a little bit. Right? How old do you think that this voice is? Giving that voice and age and name and the function? Right? Like, because all of these roles serve something to help us? Right? They all love us. They all want to do something good. They're just may not be great at it, or maybe maladaptive, but their function and purpose is to do something helpful. So what do we think the purpose is of that voice? And I think the more people name it and give it an age, and they can visualize it, it helps like, Alright, so let's say for example, Stacy's 12. And whenever this comes up, Stacy always starts getting really upset. Right? So what is she looking for? She needs attention, right? Or she's scared. So it's kind of like working with that other part of us and leaning into instead of trying to shut it down or being upset or being even angry with ourselves, or having that part of us. Yeah.

Caitlin Harrison: 23:48

Like, how many times has your partner left a dish in the sink, and your anger is triggered? You're like, they don't care about me, you have these whole stories in your head about why they're the most evil person and they don't care about you anymore. And you've completely lost the spark. And they're not who they used to be because you saw a mulligan. And it happens to all of us, right? But I think that ifs can give us just language like oh my my angry my angry parts coming up. I can get curious about my anger. Oh, yeah, my dad used to yell at me when I left them again this think and you know, it always connects back to something and it's really helps build self awareness and also can be so what you were saying earlier, kind of separating yourself from your anxiety or your anger or whatever it might be for you. Gives you a lot of relief as well. Like I am not my anger. I'm not my anxiety. That is a part of me. That makes a lot of sense why It's here. And it's trying to help. And it just gives you a little bit more space and a little bit more power. Back to say, that's not all of me. That's just a part of me. Absolutely.

Kira Yakubov Ploshansky: 25:12

And I think it helps build my compassion and empathy with yourself too. Totally. do you how do you like to sprinkle that in like is that for particular clients with presenting issues that you like to use ifs or just like, anytime it comes up when someone is like really deep into their emotions or experiencing something over and over again? Yeah,

Caitlin Harrison: 25:34

I think every client's a little bit different. I'm always using it no matter what client I'm working with, but it can look different based on which client I'm working with. Some people really like to name their parts, and they really like to spend a lot of time diving into like guided imagery and the metaphors and some clients are just they don't want to spend too much time. Flowering up the language and they just like, okay, yeah, I have an anxious part. How do I regulate it? Yeah, I'm always using it. But that looks different, depending on the client, always using the language and the concepts though.

Kira Yakubov Ploshansky: 26:19

So like we said, reframing and repackaging it right, like catering to how the client wants to use this to make sure it makes sense for them.

Caitlin Harrison: 26:27

Absolutely.

Kira Yakubov Ploshansky: 26:29

And so for a couples therapy, I know you've gone through some Gottman treatment or not treatment training. Can you share a little bit about because I know there's like three different levels of the Gottman method. I love the Gottman research I love to use use this with my couples all the time. How that shows up for you in sessions with couples. Yeah.

Caitlin Harrison: 26:51

So John and Julie Gottman, I'm level one trained in their, in their method. And how it shows up a lot of times is in the psychoeducation piece. So that's just like teaching clients about what works in relationships, and what doesn't work in relationships, how to say things in order to get what you're actually wanting and communicate what you actually want to say, kind of highlight some of the bad habits or cycles that couples have gotten into that might not be getting them where they want to be getting in their relationship. So Gottman has helped put so much research in language to phenomenons that happen in intimate relationships, and also actually like parent child relationships, too. So he does a lot of like co parenting work. And so I put a lot of that into when we're talking about parenting styles or parenting techniques with couples. And then also sue Johnson's work, Emotionally Focused Therapy, she's really influenced my work with couples as well. A lot of times, our issues are stemming from emotional ruptures, like kind of losing trust or experiencing hurt or pain, whether that's in our past from our partner, and reconnecting emotionally, can be, honestly a lot of times all that you need in order to move through a lot of the issues that you're facing as a couple, whether it be sex, communication, parenting, understanding each other and yourself is so powerful and to really gives a lot of structure and techniques for helping couples do that.

Kira Yakubov Ploshansky: 28:33

I love Sue Johnson. I saw her in her conference before I was like, Oh, this is so cool.

Caitlin Harrison: 28:37

Oh, that's awesome. Yeah, it should be so small but mighty. Yes.

Kira Yakubov Ploshansky: 28:41

And all this she was showing her cases of like working through it with couples and like, she does a lot of like, in the moment, right? I think there's different therapies where we talk about, like, gaining insight and, you know, rehashing or reenacting things with her, it's like very right now. Like, what is coming up for you as their, you know, your partner is saying this and like, where are you feeling this? And how is this you know, showing up? So I think it's awesome to kind of think about the different stages of processing and working through things with couples, is there's going to be you know, understanding their past and history and their, you know, their love story, teaching them like you were saying with the Gottman method of like things that have not worked. And then like right now, right here, what's going on between the two of you? Yeah,

Caitlin Harrison: 29:25

she has a way and I think this is a sign of like the best therapist, she has a way of calling you out while making you feel like so held in love. And I mean, I've never experienced her as a therapy fee that I'm watching Yeah, with her. I think that's, that is so powerful when your therapists can know you see you make you feel so cared for and understood, but also they're not gonna let you get away with that thing. You know, they're gonna own what's yours, right? Yeah,

Kira Yakubov Ploshansky: 29:58

she definitely has a way of do And that's, that's a tough balance, especially when you have different personalities in the room. And it's really hard for couples but anybody right to be held accountable in a moment, like woof that? I don't know, I don't like the way that feels like what part of you, right? If we're talking I have a part of us coming up to want to be defensive, or to not acknowledge this right. But I think I saw us in a different kind of think it was Terry real. He talked about holding this like loving sternness. Right. For accountability, it's like, you have to know that you're not a bad person, but what you're doing is not helpful, or it's not healthy. So you have to be able to hold both of those things in order to change and take accountability. Yep,

Caitlin Harrison: 30:47

I think that's something that all all of the models that we've talked about today share in common that you can look at what you might call, like bad behaviors or bad symptoms. With so much love and compassion and understanding for yourself, while still holding yourself accountable for materials you want and who you really want to be and making sure that you're someone that's congruent with who you're what your values are as a person.

Kira Yakubov Ploshansky: 31:17

Absolutely. And it's tough to hold both of those wrecks, I think a lot of times our emotions are contradictory. What we experienced the majority of the time is a contradictory experience. But that's okay. Like, that's normal, right? You don't have to pick one or the other like, doesn't make you a bad person if you do X, Y, and Z, but you have to own up to X, Y, and Z and have compassion for yourself, and be able to hear your partner say how it impacts them. All of that is a lot of work, but totally worth it to feel that connection and love with your partner and with yourself.

Caitlin Harrison: 31:51

Yeah, absolutely.

Kira Yakubov Ploshansky: 31:55

Is there any other like presenting issue or population that we might not have covered that you really enjoy working with?

Caitlin Harrison: 32:03

I think that exploring so a lot of a lot of the things we have touched on this quite a bit, but exploring your childhood wounds is a big passion of mine. So something else that all of these models share in common is this idea that the past sins in the present. So when you are experiencing anxiety, some kind of distress in your body, I use the word anxiety a lot just because I use that as like a umbrella term for for discomfort in your body, things are going in the way that you want it to be going I don't mean like clinical diagnosis anxiety. And, and it's typically something that we can look back and see how the past is living in your present. So exploring childhood wounding in general, maybe that is religious trauma, maybe that is mental health in your family, maybe addiction in your family. That's a big passion of mine. And so just kind of making sense of that is a is something I think we can all benefit from,

Kira Yakubov Ploshansky: 33:15

for sure. I love looking back at people's families. I think I talked about this in a different episode somebody else but I always start with a genogram with clients. Because I love to just see like the whole family who was in your life growing up like, relatives, right? Like, what kind of relationship did you have with them? Especially if there's other siblings in the home? Like, what role do you feel like you played or each sibling played, because everyone kind of fell into a little bit of a box sometimes, especially, you know, our parents are trying to do the best that they can. And we pick up things as kids pretty quickly without realizing it that if I do X, Y and Z, I will get this result. So I'm going to be conditioned to have this personality trait or show up this particular way. And then later in life, I might want to separate myself from that, but it feels like it's stuck on me like it's my identity now.

Caitlin Harrison: 34:06

Yeah, it's a confusing, confusing process to think, oh, wow, I was always really into sports. Because that person in my life really like sports. And now sports was my whole identity. And I don't know if I care about it. But I think I do you know what I was really just making sense of where that came from where it came from that it's okay that it came from somebody you know, yeah, just making sense of it all, I think is so important. And gives you so much power in your daily life and in your relationships. Yeah.

Kira Yakubov Ploshansky: 34:41

And I love like, what I'm getting from you is that you help people kind of choose, is this something that I want to keep with me? Right? A lot of it is like processing bring awareness insight. And then it's like now you have this information. What do you want to do with this? Is this feel authentic to you? Do you want to continue in this way? Does this still match up to how you You see the world and want to be in the world. So I love that I'm hearing like you also like, kind of help them have that choice and decide what feels right for them too. Yeah, that's right. That's awesome. So I really appreciate you joining, you have a wealth of knowledge and you just graduated. But you would think that you've been a therapist for over a decade. So I think that a lot of your clients and future clients are going to have a great experience with you really being seen and having all of this insight and training that you've gone through to help people through this journey. So is there anything you want to share with the listeners before we end or anything new that's coming up for you?

Caitlin Harrison: 35:42

Yeah, I am just really excited. I'm new to Pennsylvania. So I'm so excited to be here. I already have fallen in love with I'm in Pittsburgh, I'm already falling in love with the city of bridges, and just the culture and the people here. So I'm excited to work with you all. And I'm excited to be here at heal your roots and already feel so much support and openness from the team here.

Kira Yakubov Ploshansky: 36:11

It's wonderful to hear. Thank you. I'm excited to have you join our team. If anyone is interested in working with Caitlin, you can head over to our website, heal your roots wellness.com schedule a consultation, and we'll see if it's a good fit. Galen, thank you so much for being on today and sharing all your information and insight with us.

Caitlin Harrison: 36:29

Thank you.

Kira Yakubov Ploshansky: 36:31

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